[GTALUG] programming system questions

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

I have been using a web application for one of my business functions.
Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT
as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that
like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the
results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application.

At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using
postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now
doing the work.

Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am
adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each
item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified.

The present application uses css and javascript and some other things
that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server.

Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough
information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an
engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of
system but that would be several levels more complex that I think
might be necessary for this application.)

Regards

Dee
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[ac via talk]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:53:18 -0500

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Greetings

Hello :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I have been using a web application for one of my business functions.
Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT
as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that
like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the
results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application.

on the web?

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using
postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now
doing the work.

i love postgresql :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am
adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each
item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified.
The present application uses css and javascript and some other things
that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server.
Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough
information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an
engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of
system but that would be several levels more complex that I think
might be necessary for this application.)

i refuse to google "monte carlo type system" on duckduckgo.com...
please put me out of my misery and tell me what a monte carlo type
system is? ( I do love Monte Carlo also :) )

Andre

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[David Thornton via talk]

This is a chance for me to test my understanding by trying to explain it
myself.

Monte Carlo is where you randomly choose solutions from a solution space
and then try to make the results better for each choice.

Imagine you are trying to find the highest point on earth. Rather than scan
the entire earth to find the highest point, you choose a sample of points
and then see if there is something higher near-by.

This is _in general_ more efficient than scanning the whole earth, but of
course there is a change that you miss Everest.

Consider the alternative approach of choosing a point and then looking for
higher points nearby ( aka Gradient Descent). Suppose you started somewhere
in Britain... you might scan the local area and come to the conclusion that
snowdon is the highest place in the world.

Now image that you do this 100 time, and then compare the local bests of
those 100 attempts. You are more likely to find the highest point. That's
monte carlo I think.

Anyway, I'm not sure this has anything to do with what the OP is talking
about.

If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean reverse
engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without direct
access to that app?

Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what the
app will do, and hence "simulate" the app?

You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache
results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's
comes back faster.

Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy of
what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the
purposes of reverse engineering.

This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or in
front of a white board.

David

Post by ac via talk
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:53:18 -0500

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Greetings

Hello :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I have been using a web application for one of my business functions.
Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT
as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that
like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the
results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application.

on the web?

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using
postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now
doing the work.

i love postgresql :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am
adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each
item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified.
The present application uses css and javascript and some other things
that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server.
Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough
information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an
engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of
system but that would be several levels more complex that I think
might be necessary for this application.)

i refuse to google "monte carlo type system" on duckduckgo.com...
please put me out of my misery and tell me what a monte carlo type
system is? ( I do love Monte Carlo also :) )
Andre
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

This is a chance for me to test my understanding by trying to explain it myself.
Monte Carlo is where you randomly choose solutions from a solution space and then try to make the results better for each choice.
Imagine you are trying to find the highest point on earth. Rather than scan the entire earth to find the highest point, you choose a sample of points and then see if there is something higher near-by.
This is _in general_ more efficient than scanning the whole earth, but of course there is a change that you miss Everest.
Consider the alternative approach of choosing a point and then looking for higher points nearby ( aka Gradient Descent). Suppose you started somewhere in Britain... you might scan the local area and come to the conclusion that snowdon is the highest place in the world.
Now image that you do this 100 time, and then compare the local bests of those 100 attempts. You are more likely to find the highest point. That's monte carlo I think.

Its a little different than that but you're headed in the right direction.
The process was developed as the first atomic bomb was being developed
in the USA (fascinating as a large number of those scientists were
expat Germans (early 1940s to 1945).

Anyway, I'm not sure this has anything to do with what the OP is talking about.
If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean reverse engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without direct access to that app?
Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what the app will do, and hence "simulate" the app?
You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's comes back faster.
Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy of what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the purposes of reverse engineering.
This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or in front of a white board.

I like your last idea except I would have to travel about 2500 km and
that produces its own 'fun'.

Thank you for your ideas/assistance and if you know an easy way to
communicate 'chat at remote' - - - well I'm listening.

Dee

[Russell Reiter via talk]

Post by David Thornton via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
This is a chance for me to test my understanding by trying to explain it

myself.

Post by David Thornton via talk
Monte Carlo is where you randomly choose solutions from a solution space

and then try to make the results better for each choice.

Post by David Thornton via talk
Imagine you are trying to find the highest point on earth. Rather than

scan the entire earth to find the highest point, you choose a sample of
points and then see if there is something higher near-by.

Post by David Thornton via talk
This is _in general_ more efficient than scanning the whole earth, but

of course there is a change that you miss Everest.

Post by David Thornton via talk
Consider the alternative approach of choosing a point and then looking

for higher points nearby ( aka Gradient Descent). Suppose you started
somewhere in Britain... you might scan the local area and come to the
conclusion that snowdon is the highest place in the world.

Post by David Thornton via talk
Now image that you do this 100 time, and then compare the local bests of

those 100 attempts. You are more likely to find the highest point. That's
monte carlo I think.
Its a little different than that but you're headed in the right direction.
The process was developed as the first atomic bomb was being developed
in the USA (fascinating as a large number of those scientists were
expat Germans (early 1940s to 1945).

Post by David Thornton via talk
Anyway, I'm not sure this has anything to do with what the OP is talking

about.

Post by David Thornton via talk
If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean reverse

engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without direct
access to that app?

Post by David Thornton via talk
Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what the

app will do, and hence "simulate" the app?

Post by David Thornton via talk
You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache

results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's
comes back faster.

Post by David Thornton via talk
Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy of

what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the
purposes of reverse engineering.

Post by David Thornton via talk
This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or in

front of a white board.
I like your last idea except I would have to travel about 2500 km and
that produces its own 'fun'.
Thank you for your ideas/assistance and if you know an easy way to
communicate 'chat at remote' - - - well I'm listening.

I just came across this. Tim Berners Lee has just introduced his new SOLID
prototype for social media connections. You can register and check it out.
Its kind of spartan and developer oriented at the moment but is backwards
compatible while it looks to be forward thinking.

https://solid.inrupt.com/get-a-solid-pod

Post by David Thornton via talk
Dee
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 3:06 AM Russell Reiter <***@gmail.com> wrote:
snip

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean reverse engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without direct access to that app?
Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what the app will do, and hence "simulate" the app?
You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's comes back faster.
Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy of what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the purposes of reverse engineering.
This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or in front of a white board.

I like your last idea except I would have to travel about 2500 km and
that produces its own 'fun'.
Thank you for your ideas/assistance and if you know an easy way to
communicate 'chat at remote' - - - well I'm listening.

I just came across this. Tim Berners Lee has just introduced his new SOLID prototype for social media connections. You can register and check it out. Its kind of spartan and developer oriented at the moment but is backwards compatible while it looks to be forward thinking.
https://solid.inrupt.com/get-a-solid-pod

This looks like it could become something interesting - - - if it is allowed to.
My level of distrust re: web security and my privacy is high enough that I will
be waiting for a while before I jump on the band wagon.

Dee

[David Thornton via talk]

I dunno the repo is pretty lean:

https://github.com/solid/solid

I like this : "re-decentralizing"

David

snip

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
If I understand he/she wants to recreate an app. Does that mean

reverse engineer? Are you trying to recreate someone else's app without
direct access to that app?

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
Are you trying to examine interactions with the app and predict what

the app will do, and hence "simulate" the app?

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
You might also consider creating a _smart_ proxy, that lets you cache

results locally such that if you ask for the same thing a second time it's
comes back faster.

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
Additionally by implementing a proxy , you can populate your own copy

of what ever data the original service is providing and study that for the
purposes of reverse engineering.

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by David Thornton via talk
This sounds like a great conversation to have over a $drink, and/or

in front of a white board.

Post by Russell Reiter via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I like your last idea except I would have to travel about 2500 km and
that produces its own 'fun'.
Thank you for your ideas/assistance and if you know an easy way to
communicate 'chat at remote' - - - well I'm listening.

I just came across this. Tim Berners Lee has just introduced his new

SOLID prototype for social media connections. You can register and check it
out. Its kind of spartan and developer oriented at the moment but is
backwards compatible while it looks to be forward thinking.

Post by Russell Reiter via talk
https://solid.inrupt.com/get-a-solid-pod

This looks like it could become something interesting - - - if it is allowed to.
My level of distrust re: web security and my privacy is high enough that I will
be waiting for a while before I jump on the band wagon.
Dee
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[David Mason via talk]

Electron is probably the easiest way to move a web app to an application. See:
    https://electronjs.org/

It uses html, javascript, css and should be able to connect to your postgresql database.

../Dave

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Greetings
I have been using a web application for one of my business functions.
Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT
as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that
like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the
results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application.
At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using
postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now
doing the work.
Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am
adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each
item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified.
The present application uses css and javascript and some other things
that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server.
Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough
information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an
engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of
system but that would be several levels more complex that I think
might be necessary for this application.)
Regards
Dee
---
Talk Mailing List
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[Jamon Camisso via talk]

Post by David Mason via talk
Electron is probably the easiest way to move a web app to an
    https://electronjs.org/
It uses html, javascript, css and should be able to connect to your postgresql database.

slack, what should be a simple text chat built on electron is taking
873044 kb RSS memory on my desktop.

electron should be the last resort - it is probably the worst thing you
could do for your users if you care about resource constraints.

I would question the merit of even moving from a web application. I am
on 400/100kbit DSL in the country, and I don't have any issues with even
large react or ember based web apps.

Cheers, Jamon
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[David Mason via talk]

Slack is far, far, from a simple text chat, regardless of what you (or I) think it should be. I hadn’t checked its size. On my system it’s about 200MB+another 200MB per workspace. Yeah, that’s outrageous. But Firefox is using about 10GB, so I’m not exactly convinced that a web app is going to have a significantly smaller footprint than Electron.

The fact that Slack is such a high-quality app is in my mind a huge vote in favour of Electron (as is Discord)

../Dave

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by David Mason via talk
Electron is probably the easiest way to move a web app to an
    https://electronjs.org/
It uses html, javascript, css and should be able to connect to your
postgresql database.

slack, what should be a simple text chat built on electron is taking
873044 kb RSS memory on my desktop.
electron should be the last resort - it is probably the worst thing you
could do for your users if you care about resource constraints.
I would question the merit of even moving from a web application. I am
on 400/100kbit DSL in the country, and I don't have any issues with even
large react or ember based web apps.
Cheers, Jamon
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[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

Electron-based slack also wedges on machines with >= 32GB, at least as
recently as last month. --dave

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by David Mason via talk
Electron is probably the easiest way to move a web app to an
https://electronjs.org/
It uses html, javascript, css and should be able to connect to your postgresql database.

slack, what should be a simple text chat built on electron is taking
873044 kb RSS memory on my desktop.
electron should be the last resort - it is probably the worst thing you
could do for your users if you care about resource constraints.
I would question the merit of even moving from a web application. I am
on 400/100kbit DSL in the country, and I don't have any issues with even
large react or ember based web apps.
Cheers, Jamon
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--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-***@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain


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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by David Mason via talk
Electron is probably the easiest way to move a web app to an
https://electronjs.org/
It uses html, javascript, css and should be able to connect to your
postgresql database.

slack, what should be a simple text chat built on electron is taking
873044 kb RSS memory on my desktop.
electron should be the last resort - it is probably the worst thing you
could do for your users if you care about resource constraints.
I would question the merit of even moving from a web application. I am
on 400/100kbit DSL in the country, and I don't have any issues with even
large react or ember based web apps.

And what does one do when the web is down?

Everything that I depend upon someone else to provide gives them the
opportunity to hold me and my processes either hostage or under their
control.
I'm not off grid but I am working toward that item (and its not just a house
that I'm working with). I've also had enough issues with the web either
being hugely intermittent, speeds whilst better than what you list are still
incredibly pokey compared to major urban centers. Somehow I don't think
rural/urban divide on communications is going to get better any time soon.
The communications companies are only after maximum profit and service
actually costs money so - - - - .

I am quite open to NOT using html CSS and javascript (one contact calls it
java!@#$). I'm not as worried about making something easy to make or pretty
to look at - - - I want suburb functionality and great usability eye candy is
way back down the list!!

Thanks for the ideas!

Dee

[Jamon Camisso via talk]

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
And what does one do when the web is down?

A framework like react is built with this in mind - serviceworkers
handle offline actions until there's connectivity.

I'm sure others let you do the same thing with a local data store/db, be
it natively or through a plugin, and then sync up once there's a connection.

Cheers, Jamon
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
And what does one do when the web is down?

A framework like react is built with this in mind - serviceworkers
handle offline actions until there's connectivity.
I'm sure others let you do the same thing with a local data store/db, be
it natively or through a plugin, and then sync up once there's a connection.

Sorry - - - this may be practical for some web applications but when
one is doing
calculations and changing things every few moments web latency feels
like a pain
and non-connection means the work just doesn't get done. In my opinion I would
rather never see another web application. That's why I have a computer.

Regards

Dee

[ac via talk]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 19:59:29 -0500

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:10 PM Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
And what does one do when the web is down?

A framework like react is built with this in mind - serviceworkers
handle offline actions until there's connectivity.
I'm sure others let you do the same thing with a local data
store/db, be it natively or through a plugin, and then sync up once
there's a connection.

Sorry - - - this may be practical for some web applications but when
one is doing calculations and changing things every few moments web latency feels
like a pain and non-connection means the work just doesn't get done. In my
opinion I would rather never see another web application. That's why
I have a computer.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to explain a monte carlo system to me :)

Secondly, you do everything said already and install apache, etc on
your own computer.... you can even have Apache only listening on
localhost, so that you use https://127.0.0.1 - there is still a
'latency' but using javascript makes this a non issue

Andre
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Post by ac via talk
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 19:59:29 -0500

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:10 PM Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by Jamon Camisso via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
And what does one do when the web is down?

A framework like react is built with this in mind - serviceworkers
handle offline actions until there's connectivity.
I'm sure others let you do the same thing with a local data
store/db, be it natively or through a plugin, and then sync up once
there's a connection.

Sorry - - - this may be practical for some web applications but when
one is doing calculations and changing things every few moments web latency feels
like a pain and non-connection means the work just doesn't get done. In my
opinion I would rather never see another web application. That's why
I have a computer.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to explain a monte carlo system to me :)

My explanation is how 'I' see a monte carlo analysis system - - - -
the real definition
may be totally fubar if compared to what I'm using!
I first ran into the use of monte carlo analysis looking for forward
financial analysis - -
where it shines. It looks like it can be an excellent tool, albeit not
simple nor easy,
but maybe some of the negatives could be hidden in the software. For
me the idea
of being able to quantify with a reasonable certainty highly complex
models is very
attractive. Developing these skills is being part of the fun - - -
there is a fairly large
pile of things behind all the parts needed to do this.

Post by ac via talk
Secondly, you do everything said already and install apache, etc on
your own computer.... you can even have Apache only listening on
localhost, so that you use https://127.0.0.1 - there is still a
'latency' but using javascript makes this a non issue

Web latency isn't an issue if I'm doing a web application that I'm
hosting but - - -
when that application is hosted by someone else and my internet access system
(wireless ISP) adds not only latency but can occasionally add large amounts of
errors due to uncontrollables - - - - well - - - imo web applications
aren't for
everything (somewhat like personal vehicles don't work for everyone in north
america either but there sure is a lot of pressure to have one).

Very much appreciate the communication!

Dee
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Wow - - - - a pile of ideas - - - - wonderful!!!!!

Thank you very much for your ideas!!!!!

Post by ac via talk
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:53:18 -0500

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Greetings

Hello :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I have been using a web application for one of my business functions.
Besides the limitation of it being a web application (the web is NOT
as consistent nor as quick as is considered 'normal' for those that
like in rural areas) there are to many areas where I need to tweak the
results. Therefore I would like to re-create this application.

on the web?

I would rather it wasn't a web application.

Post by ac via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
At its base its somewhat like a recipe system. I plan on using
postgresql for data holding and now what might be a good way of now
doing the work.

i love postgresql :)

I still haven't really used it much (except for setups and so on) but when I
ran into it and was told that it was considered robust enough to use for
serious financial systems as compared to the that time mysql (and yes I
understand that mysql (and mariasql (sp?)) now does this much better) well
I like 'good' tools!

Post by ac via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
Think that an item has from 5 to 50 of 50 information fields. I am
adding a number of items together and specifying quantities of each
item trying to achieve levels that I previously specified.
The present application uses css and javascript and some other things
that are on the 'home' (program owner's) server.
Hopefully this description is clear enough and gives enough
information so that suggestions might be forthcoming. (I asked an
engineer friend and his suggestion was to use a monte carlo type of
system but that would be several levels more complex that I think
might be necessary for this application.)

i refuse to google "monte carlo type system" on duckduckgo.com...
please put me out of my misery and tell me what a monte carlo type
system is? ( I do love Monte Carlo also :) )

A monte carlo system sets up all the foundational parameters. So there is a
formula for every variable. Every variable has its distribution and
every distribution
has its skewness and and and (it can get very very complicated). Then
one defines
the limits on the distribution (setting parameters) which is followed
by an attempt at
solving for all the unknowns given the area of input for each.
Monte Carlo systems enable one to define the either hugely transitory or the
undefinable. The random number part comes into where if variable 's'
in item 'aaa'
has a probable range of '2 to 7 ppm' with an 85% likelihood of being
between (3.2 and
4.6 ppm) well now an number between 3.2 and 4.6 can be used for 's' value in
item 'aaa'. Then the amount of item 'aaa' is entered and the totals of
all listed
values for all items are summed. The summed items are compared to the required
minimums/maximums/desired values for each value. The overall outputs
are compared
and then adjustments are made to have a combined grouping that meets desired
outcomes.

Its a fairly straight forward process when one eliminates the
variation possible in
each of the variables. This elimination itself introduces new
variables which are most
often overcome by a planned excess. (I don't like spending more than I
have to in
trying to get the job done so I'm being quite a bit anal in the
development of the tool.)

Thanking you for your assistance.

Dee
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[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

If you're storing a large amount of information and doing statistical
work on it, you should at least consider learning R. It's very strong
for Monte Carlo simulation.

Also, if the web app you're using is public, please share the URL. We
don't know your business data, and I don't think¹ we're psychic enough
to work out what you're doing.

Stewart

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¹: but of course I'd say that …
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:32 AM Stewart C. Russell via talk

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
If you're storing a large amount of information and doing statistical
work on it, you should at least consider learning R. It's very strong
for Monte Carlo simulation.

Thanks - - - already on the order paper.

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
Also, if the web app you're using is public, please share the URL. We
don't know your business data, and I don't think¹ we're psychic enough
to work out what you're doing.

The web application I'm presently using is a subscription service. They
do have a demo that would provide most ideas for my quest - - -
sheepbytes.ca .

Thanks for the ideas!

Dee

[ac via talk]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:38:00 -0500

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:32 AM Stewart C. Russell via talk

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
If you're storing a large amount of information and doing
statistical work on it, you should at least consider learning R.
It's very strong for Monte Carlo simulation.

Thanks - - - already on the order paper.

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
Also, if the web app you're using is public, please share the URL.
We don't know your business data, and I don't think¹ we're psychic
enough to work out what you're doing.

The web application I'm presently using is a subscription service.
They do have a demo that would provide most ideas for my quest - - -
sheepbytes.ca .
Thanks for the ideas!

sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not
sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be optimal
to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with the demo and
reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this in java/whatever
- it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just saying :)

a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related...
If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would probably
enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed
requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way I
can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer)

Andre
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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Post by ac via talk
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 07:38:00 -0500

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 6:32 AM Stewart C. Russell via talk

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
If you're storing a large amount of information and doing
statistical work on it, you should at least consider learning R.
It's very strong for Monte Carlo simulation.

Thanks - - - already on the order paper.

Post by Stewart C. Russell via talk
Also, if the web app you're using is public, please share the URL.
We don't know your business data, and I don't think¹ we're psychic
enough to work out what you're doing.

The web application I'm presently using is a subscription service.
They do have a demo that would provide most ideas for my quest - - -
sheepbytes.ca .
Thanks for the ideas!

sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not
sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be optimal
to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with the demo and
reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this in java/whatever
- it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just saying :)

If I was going to add the monte carlo portion, I'm not at this time,
there would
be a lot more complexity under the hood. At present I'm thinking something like
maybe LibreOffice's dbase for a front end and a postgresql back end. I feel no
need to totally re-invent the wheel. If there is another 'kind' of
'frontend' where
with some python (also to be learned) needed for glue and calculations well
I'm looking.

Post by ac via talk
a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related...
If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would probably
enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed
requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way I
can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer)

I will look into if there is a way to use spreadsheet stuff but part
of the issue
is that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that brings up
notices/warning
and gets connected. What you see is over a bunch of other logic and some
of that is where more flexibility is needed than in the present iteration.

I was going to offer the modified back to the previous as I don't
really want to
'own' it merely to extend the present offerings.

Dee
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[ac via talk]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:44:45 -0500
<snip>

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by ac via talk
sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not
sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be
optimal to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with
the demo and reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this
in java/whatever it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just
saying :)

If I was going to add the monte carlo portion, I'm not at this time,
there would be a lot more complexity under the hood. At present I'm thinking
something like maybe LibreOffice's dbase for a front end and a
postgresql back end. I feel no need to totally re-invent the wheel.
If there is another 'kind' of 'frontend' where with some python (also to be learned) needed for glue and
calculations well I'm looking.

Python rocks :) I had to learn it myself a few years ago. Although
for what you want to do (sheepbytes) maybe try to use what you know?
what are you fluent or semi fluent in already? Java/PHP?
imho, many languages will easily do what you need :)
drawing from my own experience, something like sheepmates is not so
much about what you dev it in as the design and structure will take
90+% of the time and the coding will be very easy and very simple.
The design and structure will anyway highlight the tools you need, so it is
not really so much about gut feel as it is about what you want/need.

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by ac via talk
a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related...
If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would
probably enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed
requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way
I can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer)

I will look into if there is a way to use spreadsheet stuff but part
of the issue is that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that brings up
notices/warning > and gets connected. What you see is over a bunch of other logic and
some of that is where more flexibility is needed than in the present iteration.

indeed.
which is why a spreadsheet will work so well, as the flexibility is
only limited by the users ability and skills (to use Calc and design a
spreadsheet that uses sheets, macros and other toys effectively :)
- afaik spreadsheets can also have popups (dialog) that can be
used for warnings and notices, etc.)

So, a stock standard Calc will probably do the required job quite
easily, if it is designed and used effectively. It is also easy to
distribute, can easily be customised and chosen/selected/required data
could also be exported to a later S/R and from multiple sources :)

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I was going to offer the modified back to the previous as I don't
really want to 'own' it merely to extend the present offerings.

cool :)

Andre

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[o1bigtenor via talk]

Post by ac via talk
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:44:45 -0500
<snip>

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by ac via talk
sheepbytes.ca is cool, the local code looks neat and tidy. I am not
sure about the security thereof. And just imho S/R would not be
optimal to remake this specific java app.. just from playing with
the demo and reading the tech doc, if you do decide to remake this
in java/whatever it will be a lot of work, even with a fw and/or base. just
saying :)

If I was going to add the monte carlo portion, I'm not at this time,
there would be a lot more complexity under the hood. At present I'm thinking
something like maybe LibreOffice's dbase for a front end and a
postgresql back end. I feel no need to totally re-invent the wheel.
If there is another 'kind' of 'frontend' where with some python (also to be learned) needed for glue and
calculations well I'm looking.

Python rocks :) I had to learn it myself a few years ago. Although
for what you want to do (sheepbytes) maybe try to use what you know?
what are you fluent or semi fluent in already? Java/PHP?
imho, many languages will easily do what you need :)
drawing from my own experience, something like sheepmates is not so
much about what you dev it in as the design and structure will take
90+% of the time and the coding will be very easy and very simple.
The design and structure will anyway highlight the tools you need, so it is
not really so much about gut feel as it is about what you want/need.

Me know nudtink!
Programming has been something that I have not pursued at all to date. Starting
because of a severe lack of tools in the playpen that I'm now working in. There
is some commercial software out there - - - - its just hugely siloed
and not always
as useful as one is lead to believe by the sales literature. Then I
really don't like
some company having access to my own information. Oh well - - - - I guess I'm a
sucker for doing things the hard way!

Post by ac via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk

Post by ac via talk
a lot of what sheepmates is and does is also data related...
If I were making this, for myself and for local use, I would
probably enter the formulas into a spreadsheet and calculate my feed
requirements, etc from that...(yes, I am quite lazy - plus this way
I can give my spreadsheet out to my sheep mates and get free beer)

I will look into if there is a way to use spreadsheet stuff but part
of the issue is that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that brings up
notices/warning > and gets connected. What you see is over a bunch of other logic and
some of that is where more flexibility is needed than in the present iteration.

indeed.
which is why a spreadsheet will work so well, as the flexibility is
only limited by the users ability and skills (to use Calc and design a
spreadsheet that uses sheets, macros and other toys effectively :)
- afaik spreadsheets can also have popups (dialog) that can be
used for warnings and notices, etc.)
So, a stock standard Calc will probably do the required job quite
easily, if it is designed and used effectively. It is also easy to
distribute, can easily be customised and chosen/selected/required data
could also be exported to a later S/R and from multiple sources :)

Worth looking into - - - one more thing to do! (grin!!!)

Post by ac via talk

Post by o1bigtenor via talk
I was going to offer the modified back to the previous as I don't
really want to 'own' it merely to extend the present offerings.

cool :)

The use community is likely quite small. There could be lots more people
that could use it but finding them - - - - hugely distributed and too many
would rather someone else does the work for them. (Its easier that way
but then, imo at least, a major management item is being done by someone
with no skin in the game.)

Regards

Dee
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